Denied Add in Custom Roles

[TheDrunkenMagi]

Mentioned this in the discord with some approval so I decided to make a forum post to discuss it.

Specifically I'd like to see the option of changing the server's game mode to add in Custom Roles by a vote system similar to !rtv. A successful vote changes the game mode for all rounds/maps on the server until another successful vote changes it back. Should also give mods/admins the ability to force change the game mode.

The new regulars on the servers are getting pretty sweaty and I think the addition of more roles like the glitch and the jester would help make the servers fun again.

For those that don't know what Custom Roles are, they are an expansion on the standard TTT game rules. Instead of just having Detectives/Innocents vs Traitors there will be many different roles you can play as, each with its own special abilities and goals.

Spoiler: Click this spoiler for more information

 

[Ruki]

Thing is with this, is that it'll be confusing to people who dont know what the role does or anything. Also will most likely make it harder for us staff to see if it was actually RDM that accured or not since the manager would need to be updated with all the roles and coded to detect rdm and such. One of the things like this is Mercenary where holding any T weapon is traitorus and can get you KOS'd / killed for it. But they have access to it right? Sure they do, but they can still be killed regardless. re-writing the rules for this would be abused so much.

It's why we never got TTT2 which had similar roles to Town of Salem with SK, Vigilante, Veteran etc.
Many people enjoy the base version of TTT and adapting to a new system with new roles could drive people away from playing.

 

[TheDrunkenMagi]

Thing is with this, is that it'll be confusing to people who dont know what the role does or anything.

People already struggle with Detective and we overlook it. When I brought up having new players start opted out of Detective to fix that while they learn the game, everyone shat on that idea. I now believe in people's ability to adapt. If we aren't going to care about people knowing how to play Detective we shouldn't care about people knowing how to play any of the other roles.

Also will most likely make it harder for us staff to see if it was actually RDM that accured or not since the manager would need to be updated with all the roles and coded to detect rdm and such. One of the things like this is Mercenary where holding any T weapon is traitorus and can get you KOS'd / killed for it. But they have access to it right? Sure they do, but they can still be killed regardless. re-writing the rules for this would be abused so much.

Our rules for RDM are already insanely specific, and most people just learn them the hard way anyways. Like every time the map goes to Nuketown I already have to tell people being on the yellow roof is KOS-able.
For the manager I would just add Killer to it and just consider all the other roles as either innocent or traitor based on their team, for a quick solve.
The Mercenaries are supposed to be sneaky so they can surprise the T's with a T weapon and kill them. So, I feel like they should be able the same way as someone claiming to have gotten a T-weapon off a T body. If they're holding a T weapon and claiming Mercenary you can kill them according to the rules, but you risk your karma and the round.
I'm not asking for a re-write of all the rules. The point of this is to get the player base to chill the fuck out and have fun. Having 3 people with Augs lazering you to death for throwing a barrel near someone, because they can claim you were trying to prop-kill, isn't fun.

Many people enjoy the base version of TTT and adapting to a new system with new roles could drive people away from playing.

Which is why I said it should be a vote-able game mode change for only that server. If you don't like it and can't get the votes, you can always go to the other server. If all the servers have people playing Custom Roles then I guess that person is shit out of luck, but two servers of people actively playing is something our community already struggles to accomplish so that'd still be an improvement.

 

[Goose]

Would lowkey like this even if it was only one or two extra roles to start.

Implementing into CTTT not sure how easy that would be.

+1 anyways cause i love custom roles.

 

[Red]

This would be nice as a Fun Round since the additional roles turn the game mode into a wildly different playing experience. Another option would be to turn one of the servers into a dedicated Custom Role TTT Server since I've only ever noticed one server being played on at a time.

 

[TheDrunkenMagi]

Implementing into CTTT not sure how easy that would be.

Well let's think about it.

Innocent, Detective, and Traitor all stay the same.
Glitch would simply add more depth and consideration to rounds your Traitor rounds. The inability to use team chat will mean Traitors will have to be extra careful using explosives like c4 and jihad bomb. If you are the Glitch at least you aren't a boring ass Innocent.
Mercenary would probably create quite a few RDM trains at first, but people will eventually realize they need to treat it as finding a T-weapon as an Innocent. Put that shit away until you need it. Like I mentioned to Ruki, I don't think we need to change any rules for this.
Phantom would just make finding Traitors easier, which might be necessary with the extra roles confusing people.
Assassin would potentially be a source of complaints. You have to pay attention at the start of the round and find your target. Maybe we can add a built-in target ping to make things easier when you have 23 other players to sort through (like the assassinate fun game). Would also need to define and build the 'basic shop' that they have access too.
Hypnotist would pretty much just make the game funner to play. This role also needs a 'basic shop' and maybe an alarm of some kind for the person being revived. People tend to check out or open crates/trade while they're dead, so we'll need something to alert them they get to play again.
Vampire would be a pretty great role for our server considering Traitors normally can't heal. Also needs a 'basic shop.'
Zombie would be essentially be like a fun round. They're supposed to have a 'perk shop' that improves their character with zombie powers, but imho that's kind of optional. Some servers make their player models have a green tint, but that's also optional imo.
Jester and Swapper would be the big problem areas, like they're supposed to be. These are the only roles that need a change to the current CTTT rules. In that they need to be exempt from penalties for T-baiting/trolling, because that's what they're supposed to be doing. I think we will see a lot of Jester wins at first, but people will eventually relax their sweaty playstyles and learn to have fun. These two roles do a very good job of reducing the amount of RDM in the game.
Killer would pretty much be the funnest role to play and the most gratifying victory to achieve. Which I guess also means people will get super whiny if they get RDM'd on a Killer round.

TLDR; We'll need to make a 'basic shop' for the off-traitor roles, add a rule exempting Jesters and Swappers from T-baiting/Trolling penalties, and maybe a 'perk shop' for Zombies.
Other things to consider; Target Ping for Assassins, Revive Alarm for Hypnotist Brain-Washing device, and player model color tint for zombies.

 

[TheDrunkenMagi]

Another option would be to turn one of the servers into a dedicated Custom Role TTT Server since I've only ever noticed one server being played on at a time.

True, server 2 is really only used as a backup when server 1 crashes.
They could also make a third server that is Custom Roles dedicated to see how it plays it out.

This would be nice

Would lowkey like this

Also if you guys like this idea make sure you upvote it on the right, since people are shadow downvoting it.

 

[gamz]

I support the custom roles idea. However, adding new roles would completely change the entire gamemode and playstyle. I think the main server should stick to the core concepts of TTT, but a 2nd server with custom roles and a seperate spin on the gamemode could be really cool.

 

[TheDrunkenMagi]

I support the custom roles idea. However, adding new roles would completely change the entire gamemode and playstyle. I think the main server should stick to the core concepts of TTT, but a 2nd server with custom roles and a seperate spin on the gamemode could be really cool.

I both agree and disagree. I don't think the gamemode and playstyle change that much. I think this misconception comes from other custom roles servers that add a lot of other things, like the randomat, insane numbers of T-weapons, or the version of custom roles that has 50+ roles. But I agree with a 2nd server with custom roles. I think a trial server would go to prove that custom roles make the game better without changing all that much.

 

[Torbjörn]

Either a second server with second roles or making this a fun round would be ideal. Alternatively, we could just add a few roles such as jester which don't alter gameplay that much just to add some variety rather than just another innocent round.

Edit: I had some additional points to bring up:

1. The roles that don't alter gameplay that much such as serial killer and jester could be fun to see every once in a while during a round. Perhaps just make the odds of there being one rather low so there is not one every round.
2. Most of the heavy lifting is already done, if I had to guess implementing this would be rather simple and it wouldn't hurt to try it.
3. While yes, this would modify gameplay if we only add a few of the ones that are very straightforward such as jester or serial killer I do not see any additional confusion with those roles, especially if there's a prompt in chat when you get one of these "unconventional" roles.

 

[TheDrunkenMagi]

While yes, this would modify gameplay if we only add a few of the ones that are very straightforward such as jester or serial killer I do not see any additional confusion with those roles, especially if there's a prompt in chat when you get one of these "unconventional" roles.

'You are the Killer, Kill everyone.'
'You are the Jester, get Killed.'

 

[Air]

+1 But there should be a custom server for this so people who want to play regular TTT can

 

[Opalium]

I'm against the idea of custom roles for three main reasons:

1. It introduces a lot of additional complexity into the game, which makes things a lot more tedious to play - especially when the style of CTTT leans towards fast-paced gameplay instead. There are enough rules and gotchas to consider when you play CTTT currently - adding dozens more from extra roles is going to make it chaotic. Not to mention, it makes the game even more difficult for beginners to grasp which hinders our ability to attract new players; we can't just overload a new fellow with so much information, they'll leave soon after.
2. All this extra complexity results in very little value actually being introduced to the game. The new roles, at the end of the day, don't fit very well into the main game loop of TTT. It's clear they are inspired by games like Town of Salem or Mafia, but these are very different games that play differently and with a different mindset. It won't work well for TTT, which is an action game in heart rather than a turn-based deduction game. Not to mention, we are a public server which naturally means there is less cooperation between the players involved. These roles might pass in a private server with friends who play by the rules, but it's a lost cause in a public environment with strangers.
3. Most of the roles suggested here introduce more problems to the core gameplay loop than they provide meaningful new mechanics to it. Ghost and Hypnotist are an obvious ghosting problem; Killer and Jester throws the entire balance between Traitors and Innocents into the trash; and Mercenary breaks all the rules around Traitorous weapons. The rest are just glorified Traitors/Innocents with specialized SWEPs, who at the end of the day will resort to killing anyway.

TL;DR: too much complexity and problems for very little value. It's confusing, it introduces a lot of rule problems, and at the end of the day they just don't fit the intended design of TTT, especially in a public server.

Thanks for suggesting.