Other New trait: Immolating

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Pigeon

Pijon mustard
Crescent Plus
Joined
Aug 8, 2019
Messages
324
Before we had bleed, we had incendiary bullets. This was a time before traits too, and bleed/incendiary bullets was a mod. It reduced the damage of your shots and gave them a chance to do additional damage over time. As incendiary bullets, the general complaint was that it was impossible to fight back against because you couldn't see anything while you were burning, so it got changed to bleed with the exact same effect minus the visuals.

As weiss has said in his thread that I didn't put the effort into finding to link here before making this, the power level between then and now has gone up significantly, and I honestly don't think that it would be all that problematic to bring back incendiary bullets, but I'd like to see it completely reworked and brought back, instead of just replacing bleed. I have a few versions of this, none of which have been extensively considered in terms of balance, so I'm veri open to feedback. I just want to torch people alive.

Passive:
  • Damage increased by x1.1
  • hs mult reduced to x1
  • 100% of damage dealt is staggered at 1/15th damage per tick, 3 ticks per second, for 5 seconds. Subsequent shots against burning targets would do damage ticks at the same time to avoid spamming burning visuals. (potentially 1/9th per tick, 3 ticks per second, 3 seconds)
The idea is that you gain extra damage and an advantage in gunfights in the form of messing with your opponents visuals slightly, but also lose the ability to quickly kill a target before they can react. It encourages an entirely different playstyle, where cover and stealth are actually important. And to answer the question of why you would want this over killing someone before they can react; even if it isn't as effective, adding more ways to play the game makes the game more fun in the long term.

Active:
  • 45 second cooldown
  • Activating the trait gives you one full magazine of immolating bullets, which deal 80% of their damage on impact and 20% staggered over 3 seconds (3 ticks per second)
This one looks a lot more like something that might exist in the game than the first idea. You might look at this and wonder "so as a trait, normal damage but slower ttk and the chance to miss 20% of your damage if they have a smoke grenade or purify gun?" That's definitely a risk you take with this, but it is a lot harder to win a gunfight while your vision and aim are obscured by fire. I also think it would be smarter to add this to the game closer to the weaker side, so if needed this could be buffed to 85/25 or something like that. I think this idea is less fun and unique than the first one, but it's a lot more reasonable and will probably fit much better.

Active:
  • 20 second cooldown
  • On activation, instantly and remotely detonates the body of the last player killed by this weapon. The corpse is burned in a similar manner to a flare gun, and everyone within 6m of the corpse is set on fire, taking 30 damage staggered across 5 seconds. (3 ticks of 2 per second)
This one would be a lot more like rig than bleed. So given that rig is nearly lethal and this is only 30 damage rig might seem like a better option. In certain cases yes, but rig also has pretty harsh damage falloff. This sacrifices damage for utility. It would give you an advantage in a gunfight for 5 seconds or could be used to get rid of a body without buying a flare gun. Maybe you killed an inno as an inno and don't want the detective getting your dna. This idea maintains the fantasy of burning people to death, while moving away from bleed/old incendiary bullets territory.


Active:
  • 60 second cooldown
  • Upon activation, for 5 seconds your damage is reduced by 100% and your bullets create fires at the point of impact. (The fires act just like incendiary grenade fires, but do less damage. Maybe 4 instead of 8 per tick?)
The glaring problem I see with this one is that it's exceptionally weak on single shot weapons like the awp. Perhaps the damage of the fire could scale inversely with the fire rate of the gun, or the number of fires created could scale inversely with the fire rate of the gun. Another solution would be to simply make it unable to roll on snipers, the deagle and the r8. It would definitely be overpowered to do normal damage and do fire damage, and since this is meant more for area denial than extra damage, I figure it doesn't need to be more effective than just shooting someone normally.

I would also like to see a few changes to on-fire mechanics and related mechanics as well. Each of the above ideas assumes these changes are added as well:
  • reduce the time before smoke grenades go off, or have them instantly go off if you pull one out while burning.
  • reduce the intensity of the red screen and camera shake caused by burning
  • allow purify to extinguish a burning user.
It has also occurred to me that this version of xenforo has removed the ability to create custom polls on posts (that or I'm dumb and can't find it now, equally likely) so I made a strawpoll to vote on which version of these you want (or none if you dislike them all). You can vote for multiple options. Which version of immolating?
 

Weiss

1%
Crescent Infinity
Joined
Aug 8, 2019
Messages
170

i want fire trait / mod
 

TheDrunkenMagi

Hardcore Member
Crescent Plus
Joined
Jul 30, 2020
Messages
275
Ideas 1 & 2: I don't think these will work for the reasons you said yourself. Mainly that they reduce TTK. You might enjoy an alternative play style, but it's not like it will be forced on everyone. Once someone goes back to weapons with <1s ttk everyone else will eventually follow suit to stay competitive. Then we'll just have another reforge/scrap trait.
Low ttk value is built into the core of the game. As a traitor you want to eliminate someone as quickly as possible and move on to the next or get away. As an innocent/detective, the traitor most likely surprise attacked you, so you have to kill them before they kill you. Unless ttk is increased, the kind of prolonged fights where fire would be useful will continue to be rare.

Idea 3: This should be a T-weapon (rig should be too). It just invites RDM. It's only useful to innocents/detectives in the extremely specific scenario of having just killed a traitor and you have a valid kos on another traitor who doesn't know you have a valid kos on them. That traitor then goes near the body, and you use your trait.

Idea 4: This one is interesting, but like you said would be limited by ammunition/rof. It also runs the risk of being easily overshadowed by an incendiary grenade.

Conclusion/Suggestions: If it doesn't raise ttk no one will use it. I suggest just letting the gun do normal damage with additional fire damage and burning on top of that, and have like an overheat period where the shooter can't use their gun for awhile (like overload/amplify). You could also go a not lighting people on with fire your gun route and do like a fire trail or fire burst type thing.
 

Pigeon

Pijon mustard
Crescent Plus
Joined
Aug 8, 2019
Messages
324
I would say that the community is pretty evenly split between trying to find the best, most effective guns to win all the time and lower ttk as much as possible, and trying to find different things to do and new playstyles. I'm not suggesting this to appeal to the competitive crowd, I'm appealing to the off meta crowd.
Then we'll just have another reforge/scrap trait
I really dislike this outlook. That's a problem with the reforging system, not the traits themselves. The same could be said for adding more skins to the game; that it waters down the drop pool and makes you less likely to get the legendary you want.

This should be a T-weapon (rig should be too). It just invites RDM. It's only useful to innocents/detectives in the extremely specific scenari
Rig and this are both definitely a lot more useful for traitors than innos, but if you try to make it work as an inno (again, for the sake of variety over consistency) the situation comes up fairly often actually.

It also runs the risk of being easily overshadowed by an incendiary grenade.
Maybe, but you have a lot more control with this than you do with an incend. That said it does take up a trait slot as opposed to a grenade slot.

If it doesn't raise ttk no one will use it.
I wholeheartedly disagree. The whole point of this suggestion is to add variety to the game for the crowd that's looking for more options to fuck around with. That isn't to say that we don't need more meta traits, just that we should add more off meta traits like these.
 

TheDrunkenMagi

Hardcore Member
Crescent Plus
Joined
Jul 30, 2020
Messages
275
The whole point of this suggestion is to add variety to the game for the crowd that's looking for more options to fuck around with. That isn't to say that we don't need more meta traits, just that we should add more off meta traits like these.
I feel like adding another trait isn't a good way to accomplish your goal of adding variety. People will adapt to it in 2-3 days tops and everything will go back to normal (like with swap). Adding a flamethrower T-weapon would accomplish this much better, as well as your goal of lighting people on fire. Are you just trying to motivate yourself to open more crates? I think CTTT should lean away from crate items changing the gameplay/balancing and just lettings those items be there for cosmetics/convenience.