Weapon Some more Detective/Traitor weapon ideas

[TheDrunkenMagi]

Tazer Upgrade: (Detectives) Tazing someone causes them to drop whatever they are holding (and be unable to pick anything up for the duration).

Baton: (Detectives) Automatically purchased equipment upgrade to Detective melee weapons. Hitting someone in the head with a melee weapon causes them to drop whatever they are holding (and be unable to pick anything up for the duration) and ragdoll for 1 second. That'll teach those damn jaywalkers.

Threat Analysis Drone: (Detectives) A protective drone that follows the detective around and points out threats for them. Players pointing their weapon at the detective will be highlighted in a red aura. If someone points their gun at the detective's head the drone will give off warning beeps. The drone can only be destroyed by killing the detective that purchased it. Investigating the detective's corpse will reveal a message from the drone stating who the killer is, this suffices as a KOS for that person. #freethedrone

Riot Hose: (Detectives) Scared innocents crowding around you? Worried about getting knifed? GIVEM DA HOSE! Sprays a jet of water that will push players/objects away from you. Should be much weaker than a Neutron Launcher, but can be applied in a continual stream. Has limited ammo but enough for a solid minute of spraying. Can put out fires??? Workshop content for potential model.

Tear Gas Grenades: (Detectives and Traitors) This non-lethal grenade releases invisible smoke (No SFX needed! Wow, easy to implement!) that causes painful breathing and blurry vision to everyone that breathes it in. While in the grenade's AoE (very large recommended) a player receives continual damage triggers like they are being burned (but it doesn't do any damage, I repeat no damage). Additionally, their vision becomes very blurry (this can be optional depending on how hard it would be to implement) and they cannot see names/statuses of other players (or acquire targets for Quickchat/Traits). 1 credit buys you a stack of 3 grenades.
Edit: People might confuse seeing someone while under the effects of Tear Gas with that person being Disguised and commit RDM. The pain notifications should prevent this confusion, but if it's a concern we can just change it to have the status say "Unknown" or something. The inability to target with Quickchat/Traits should remain though.

Insanity Device: (Traitors) This device emits sound waves on frequencies too low to hear, but will drive people (members of traitor team are unaffected) temporarily insane. Plant it like a C4 and any member of the innocent team within its AoE (recommend same as C4) will begin occasionally talking to themselves and screaming (just use the voice lines that come with default gmod like "Run For Your Life!" or the one with guy talking about cheese). After being in its AoE for 8 seconds they will fall and roll on the ground (ragdoll) for 2 seconds. This repeats, (8 seconds able to move around, 2 seconds ragdoll) until the player leaves the AoE or the Insanity Device is removed/destroyed.
Edit: Tried to clarify the talking to themselves/screaming part and changed the effect durations.

Alcohol: (Traitors) Drinking this give you +0% damage, +0% rate of fire, +0% spread, +0% recoil, +0% movement speed, +0% ammunition, +0% shards earned, and +0% loot crate rarity. In exchange for all those amazing bonuses you will be unable to earn or spend credits for the rest of the round. Also, at the end of the round, there will be an announcement in the chat stating how many kills you got while drunk this round and how many total kills you've ever gotten while drunk in CTTT. It's the poor man's stat tracking. Don't let naysayers tell you it just takes a credit and gives you nothing, they don't understand how motivation works. Workshop content for potential model.
Edit: Added in inability to earn or spend credits after drinking to help people understand what this item is all about.

 

[TheDrunkenMagi]

Radio Upgrade: (Traitors) Allow the radio to play equipped audio items from the radio menu. I wanna play a fake jihad to give everyone a heart attack.

 

[Eriana]

Tazer Upgrade

Tazer does NOT need an upgrade. It already causes players to spazz about being unable to do anything.

Baton:

Unnecessary, and, while clever, all I can see is people using this to troll other players, and cause issues.

Threat Analysis Drone:

NO. We do not need another drone. Period. I refuse to let this be a thing. Fuck the drones. Honestly.

Riot Hose:

So.. gravity is a great trait. So is Knockback. And Repulse. And Shadowbound. Unnecessary, and I feel this will lead to issues, like the baton.

Tear Gas Grenades: (Detectives and Traitors)

Unfortunately, this is not only a bad idea, but due to how the engine/weapon base works for TTT, the one credit for three grenades does not work. Also, disguiser is a thing.

Insanity Device: (Traitors)

Just. No.

Alcohol: (Traitors)

lolno

Radio Upgrade: (Traitors)

The ONLY one I like. If it's even possible.

 

[Eriana]

Tazer Upgrade The Tazer does not need an upgrade. It already makes the person that gets hit absolutely vulnerable to anything - even props. On top of that, it's already balanced as is. Making it even stronger causes the balance to go away, and.. Magnetize is a thing? It already does this.

Riot Hose: A LOT OF OUR TRAITS MAKE THIS COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT. On top of that, if an RDM'ing detective gets one of these like on dolls, or some other high map, it's a tool that incites mass RDM. I also don't see it used very much, if it were even thought about.

Tear Gas Grenades: As much as you think making a non-damaging blinding tactical grenade is innovative and such, it.. already.. exists?? The Smoke Grenade. On top of that, you're essentially creating something that can - and will - cause accidental RDM. If players can't see someone's name (Which disguiser does btw) they will just. Shoot whoever they see, some people will.

Insanity Device: I'm not even going to give this one the benefit of the doubt. This is just a bad item all around. It can and will cause RDM, it is overpowered, and does nothing but cause issues if it were to be implemented.

Alcohol: There is no need to implement this, other than for bragging rights. Which, by the way, you can just. Read off how many kills you get from the end-round pop-up. You don't need this. It's not needed. Just extra coding for an unnecessary purpose.

Radio Upgrade: This is the **only** one I support, only because of custom jihad noises. Period. That's it.

 

[TheDrunkenMagi]

Tazer does NOT need an upgrade. It already causes players to spazz about being unable to do anything.

Unnecessary, and, while clever, all I can see is people using this to troll other players, and cause issues.

NO. We do not need another drone. Period. I refuse to let this be a thing. Fuck the drones. Honestly.

So.. gravity is a great trait. So is Knockback. And Repulse. And Shadowbound. Unnecessary, and I feel this will lead to issues, like the baton.

Unfortunately, this is not only a bad idea, but due to how the engine/weapon base works for TTT, the one credit for three grenades does not work. Also, disguiser is a thing.

Just. No.

lolno

The ONLY one I like. If it's even possible.

This whole post is basically just "lol no" with no constructive criticism. I can't be certain you even read anything I wrote. I'm glad you elaborated in another post but now this one is just a waste of space. No offense meant, I don't know how to word the sentiment without seeming like an asshole. Have some lenny faces to take away some of the tension: (˵ ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°˵) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡ – ✧) ᕦ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)ᕤ ¯\_( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)_/¯

Tazer Upgrade The Tazer does not need an upgrade. It already makes the person that gets hit absolutely vulnerable to anything - even props. On top of that, it's already balanced as is. Making it even stronger causes the balance to go away, and.. Magnetize is a thing? It already does this.

Riot Hose: A LOT OF OUR TRAITS MAKE THIS COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT. On top of that, if an RDM'ing detective gets one of these like on dolls, or some other high map, it's a tool that incites mass RDM. I also don't see it used very much, if it were even thought about.

Tear Gas Grenades: As much as you think making a non-damaging blinding tactical grenade is innovative and such, it.. already.. exists?? The Smoke Grenade. On top of that, you're essentially creating something that can - and will - cause accidental RDM. If players can't see someone's name (Which disguiser does btw) they will just. Shoot whoever they see, some people will.

Insanity Device: I'm not even going to give this one the benefit of the doubt. This is just a bad item all around. It can and will cause RDM, it is overpowered, and does nothing but cause issues if it were to be implemented.

Alcohol: There is no need to implement this, other than for bragging rights. Which, by the way, you can just. Read off how many kills you get from the end-round pop-up. You don't need this. It's not needed. Just extra coding for an unnecessary purpose.

Radio Upgrade: This is the **only** one I support, only because of custom jihad noises. Period. That's it.

Tazer Upgrade: This upgrade does almost nothing. Worst case scenario a detective uses it to steal someone's gun. Which I got no problem with. Allowing detectives to do Magnetize things without a Magnetize weapon is fine too. Also, Magnetize doesn't make them ragdoll, isn't single target, and doesn't hurt them, so it's not really like Magnetize at all is it?

Riot Hose: No traits do the same thing exactly though. Even if they did, by the Riot Hose not being a trait, it is inherently different and alters gameplay. Knockback is the most similar but the Riot Hose deals no damage to the person being pushed, making it a non-RDM item unless you're pushing them somewhere dangerous. Stop taking away my dangerous fireworks! RDMers are going to RDM regardless of what is in the game, we can't hinder our fun based on "assholes might use this to be an asshole." The only way to prevent RDM is consistent enforcement of the rules.

Tear Gas Grenades: This is pretty much just a nuisance item. The vision blur was written in as optional. These grenades are meant to make people who aren't fighting (because they're easy to ignore if you are fighting someone) leave an area to get rid of the annoying pain notifications. They're available to detectives and traitors to make them non-kosable (and because it makes sense, immersively, for detectives to have them too). So you shouldn't be shooting anyone without a valid reason. If you think people are going to confuse being affected by tear gas with seeing someone nameless and assuming they're disguised, I'd assume the opposite would occur more often. Disguises rarely get used and people tend to do a triple take on them to make sure what they are seeing. The frequent and constant pain notifications should be a big clue too. I suppose you are kind of right though, I shouldn't assume people will use their braincells. Maybe still provide something, like it just says 'Unknown' instead of their name/health/etc.? I'll edit that in. Thanks for the feedback.

Insanity Device: Talking about this in the Discord made it clear to me you didn't completely understand what I meant at certain points when describing this item. I know you'll still disagree at some points (you really hate the ragdoll mechanic for some reason, I'll be sure to use this information in-game), but I'll edit the description for clarification. Thanks for the feedback.

Alcohol: tbh this was 1/2 joke, and it's meant to be an joke item with utility external to round/game.
Bragging rights. Yes.
It's not needed. 100% agree.
You can read how many kills you get from the end-round pop-up, but not your total kills. The Alcohol item is supposed to be a bragging item. You waste a traitor credit on it, kill people, then brag about it. It's "I don't need no special traitor shit to win" the item. Maybe I should add that you can't gain credits after drinking to further drive that point home without saying it out loud. Thanks for the feedback.

Radio Upgrade: I don't know... Jihad sounds coming from a radio might cause people to RDM each other thinking they might get jihaded. And RDM is something you're super worried about. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡ – ✧)

Thanks for elaborating, because you did so I was able to edit a few things and improve some items. Just because you think an idea is bad doesn't mean it is necessarily a no-go. Constructive criticism is about improving bad ideas until they become acceptable/good.

 

[Eriana]

Tazer Upgrade: This upgrade does almost nothing. Worst case scenario a detective uses it to steal someone's gun. Which I got no problem with. Allowing detectives to do Magnetize things without a Magnetize weapon is fine too. Also, Magnetize doesn't make them ragdoll, isn't single target, and doesn't hurt them, so it's not really like Magnetize at all is it?

Tazer does damage already, so it doesn't matter if magnetize does damage or not. On top of that, being tazered is obnoxious enough already, and pretty strong in itself. It realistically doesn't need a buff. I feel like I will be saying this a lot throughout this reply, but, the point of a trait existing is to add value to a weapon, to make it unique, and giving the player a unique utility at their disposal. Making a trait irrelevant by making it a buyable item in the shop hurts this notion.

Riot Hose: No traits do the same thing exactly though. Even if they did, by the Riot Hose not being a trait, it is inherently different and alters gameplay. Knockback is the most similar but the Riot Hose deals no damage to the person being pushed, making it a non-RDM item unless you're pushing them somewhere dangerous. Stop taking away my dangerous fireworks! RDMers are going to RDM regardless of what is in the game, we can't hinder our fun based on "assholes might use this to be an asshole." The only way to prevent RDM is consistent enforcement of the rules.

Sprays a jet of water that will push players/objects away from you

As per what you originally said in the suggestion, and given what knockback/gravity does, this, again, is a case of making a trait irrelevant. Besides this, there's a fundamental part of the game that you're seeming to not understand. Given the way the game weapon base code does for TTT, it is currently impossible to give a projectile a push/pull force without causing damage on the target that is shot. That's why the Newton Launcher does damage, that's why Knockback/Gravity does damage. On top of this, your claim about RDMers doing it regardless, makes the idea of this weapon even more flawed. I can already see trolling/RDM'ing detectives using this to push players into pits/off ledges/into the way of incends.. All sorts of things. Things like this have to be taken into account when adding anything to a server - even if you might find it fun.

Tear Gas Grenades: This is pretty much just a nuisance item. The vision blur was written in as optional. These grenades are meant to make people who aren't fighting (because they're easy to ignore if you are fighting someone) leave an area to get rid of the annoying pain notifications. They're available to detectives and traitors to make them non-kosable (and because it makes sense, immersively, for detectives to have them too). So you shouldn't be shooting anyone without a valid reason. If you think people are going to confuse being affected by tear gas with seeing someone nameless and assuming they're disguised, I'd assume the opposite would occur more often. Disguises rarely get used and people tend to do a triple take on them to make sure what they are seeing. The frequent and constant pain notifications should be a big clue too. I suppose you are kind of right though, I shouldn't assume people will use their braincells. Maybe still provide something, like it just says 'Unknown' instead of their name/health/etc.? I'll edit that in. Thanks for the feedback.

This is a nuisance item with a very, very negative downside to it - the fact that people can't see the names of players is already a thing in the game. Disguises get used more often than you realize, and if I see someone without seeing their name as I hover over them, you bet I'm going to shoot them. If random innocents throw it, and walk into the area of effect of it, and their name goes away, that makes them fair game for innocents to kill. Disguiser is already a very powerful tool in the arsenal of a T. You are also relying heavily on the fact that this will be used before the T dies. If an innocent gets their hand on it, and uses it, while others don't realize it's being used, they will, 9 times out of 10, shoot the person right then and there, no questions asked. Also, again, if you want to get away from something, in a sneaky way, shadowbound exists. Shadowbound with disguiser is a very, very strong option for traitors - please remember this.

Insanity Device: Talking about this in the Discord made it clear to me you didn't completely understand what I meant at certain points when describing this item. I know you'll still disagree at some points (you really hate the ragdoll mechanic for some reason, I'll be sure to use this information in-game), but I'll edit the description for clarification. Thanks for the feedback.

I will say this one last time, and make it clear as I can. The way you described it, and the way it functions, it is effectively a passive AoE tazer. That is inherrently very, very strong, and practically impossible to balance. On top of that, it only targets innocents. By your logic, since it can only target innocents, you can kos anyone not affected by it without harm, and just.. shoot them.

Radio Upgrade: I don't know... Jihad sounds coming from a radio might cause people to RDM each other thinking they might get jihaded. And RDM is something you're super worried about. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡ – ✧)

This was extremely unnecessary for you to say. There was no reason for you to go after me for trying to avoid implementing things that are inherently unbalanced, extremely overpowered, and unnecessary for the sake of immersion.
If you want immersion, play DarkRP.
This is TTT. TTT does not need immersion.

Moral of the story - Immersion matters little when it makes a game unfair, and not enjoyable for those who play it.

 

[TheDrunkenMagi]

Tazer does damage already, so it doesn't matter if magnetize does damage or not. On top of that, being tazered is obnoxious enough already, and pretty strong in itself. It realistically doesn't need a buff.

Ok clearly I need to not call it a tazer upgrade because you're really getting hung up on that, and that means other people will too. Making someone drop their carried weapon (if possible) when being tazed is just something I would expect to happen.

I feel like I will be saying this a lot throughout this reply, but, the point of a trait existing is to add value to a weapon, to make it unique, and giving the player a unique utility at their disposal. Making a trait irrelevant by making it a buyable item in the shop hurts this notion.

I don't this makes the trait irrelevant. Magnetic is still a multi-target non-damaging AoE, which has an infinite number of scenarios where it would be useful and where the tazer wouldn't be.
Even so, I consider weapon traits as something extra/expendable when compared to things in the base game. It's like when I say a gun needs a buff and everyone is like 'but that gun is so OP when fully modded!' Ok, nerf the mods, buff the gun. The base gun is more important to the game than the modded one. For a metaphor, weapon traits are like a birthday cake and traitor/detective items are the kids invited to the birthday party. If we have a cake with nuts in it, but want to invite a kid with a nut allergy, we don't tell that kid he can't come. We get a different cake, or another cake, or he just doesn't have any cake. We make it work, because that kid is more important than a cake. I think this is where we fundamentally disagree. Not with that kid being more important than a cake, but with how flexible/valuable we consider weapon traits to be.

As per what you originally said in the suggestion, and given what knockback/gravity does, this, again, is a case of making a trait irrelevant. Besides this, there's a fundamental part of the game that you're seeming to not understand. Given the way the game weapon base code does for TTT, it is currently impossible to give a projectile a push/pull force without causing damage on the target that is shot. That's why the Newton Launcher does damage, that's why Knockback/Gravity does damage.

Oh, well if it can't work, it can't work. Discombobulators can push people without damaging them though.

On top of this, your claim about RDMers doing it regardless, makes the idea of this weapon even more flawed. I can already see trolling/RDM'ing detectives using this to push players into pits/off ledges/into the way of incends.. All sorts of things. Things like this have to be taken into account when adding anything to a server - even if you might find it fun.

We disagree here too. Pushing someone into harms way is already a traitorous act by the rules of the server. Sure detectives are immune to traitorous acts, but not to RDMing. So I guess the detective can annoy/scare people, but only as long as no one gets hurt. Trolling is considered toxic behavior and is also against the rules of this server. If you're worried about a detective pushing another player into someone else's incendiary grenade to work around the RDM Manager, that's called meta-gaming and falls under toxic behavior, and is against the rules. Things like this do not have to be taken into account when adding anything to a server, because the server rules are designed to protect us against them. Enforcing the rules makes this not a problem. If you can consider a scenario where someone can circumvent the rules using this, like with what happened when Swap was added in, that's a different story. If rules need to be added/changed to implement a suggestion, then that should be brought up, but all the issues you've brought up are already against the rules. If someone uses this to break the rules then they should be punished the same way they would be if they used anything else in the game to break the rules. Not adding it in because someone might use it to break a rule, makes absolutely no sense to me.

This is a nuisance item with a very, very negative downside to it - the fact that people can't see the names of players is already a thing in the game. Disguises get used more often than you realize, and if I see someone without seeing their name as I hover over them, you bet I'm going to shoot them. If random innocents throw it, and walk into the area of effect of it, and their name goes away, that makes them fair game for innocents to kill. Disguiser is already a very powerful tool in the arsenal of a T. You are also relying heavily on the fact that this will be used before the T dies. If an innocent gets their hand on it, and uses it, while others don't realize it's being used, they will, 9 times out of 10, shoot the person right then and there, no questions asked.

I already addressed the name going away thing. Actually, I can't find anywhere in the rules that it says you can shoot someone if you can't see their name. We just know they're using a disguiser (a T-weapon), which is KOSable, because that's the only thing that does that. So, if anything, adding this item would have the opposite effect of what you are saying, and not being able to see someone's name would no longer be KOSable. Do to the fact that you might be under the affects of Tear Gas. Even so, I already suggested just altering the name/status instead of removing it completely because of what you said earlier. Also, as an item available to both traitors and detectives, an innocent picking it up and using it is KOSable. Just like if an innocent picked up a Gauss Rifle and used it.

I will say this one last time, and make it clear as I can. The way you described it, and the way it functions, it is effectively a passive AoE tazer. That is inherrently very, very strong, and practically impossible to balance. On top of that, it only targets innocents. By your logic, since it can only target innocents, you can kos anyone not affected by it without harm, and just.. shoot them.

Yes and No. It's meant to be like a quiet C4. Since it is quiet, it is hard to find and its effect needs to be weaker, so it doesn't kill anyone by itself. It makes them unable to fight and you have to go in there and kill everyone yourself before they get back up. It's weakness is already built into it, when you hear your character making voicelines, get out of there and you won't ragdoll. I feel like you vastly overestimate the power of ragdoll, it's kinda hard to hit people proned out on the ground if you aren't right on top of them. Also no, you can't kos anyone not affected by it. Firstly, because according to the rules you can't kos someone for not being affected by a Traitorous act. Secondly, because people would have different affect timers based on when they entered the AoE. You couldn't be sure if they just entered the AoE so they didn't fall prone at the same time as you, and you can't really be sure if their character is saying voicelines or not. You can only be suspicious of them until they start killing people or commit a traitorous act.

This is TTT. TTT does not need immersion.
Moral of the story - Immersion matters little when it makes a game unfair, and not enjoyable for those who play it.

I still don't think any of these things make the game unfair. I still think all these suggestions will make the game more enjoyable for those who play it. Whether or not TTT needs immersion, immersion is still a good thing to have if it doesn't cost us anything.

I feel like we're about at the point of "Agree to Disagree." While I don't want to force you to give me the last word, I don't want anyone new to the thread to feel like they have to read through more walls of text to provide feedback. So if you want to continue could we please do it in DMs?

 

[Brxndon]

Would like to add one if you don't mind a little hijacking

Juggernog (traitor) - Healing item for the traitor that heals 50hp and plays a snippet of the juggernog theme ( as heard here

) Also calls traitor out in text chat for purchasing the item.


I feel like traitors need SOME sort of healing item, but maybe it's just me.

 

[Pigeon]

Tazer upgrade: Kinda pointless imo. Tazer is already basically lethal, as you said the upgrade does almost nothing. I am of the opinion that the tazer is fine as is, if not bordering on overpowered.

Baton: It's surprisingly easy to get a melee hit in combat, and as the tazer has proven, ragdolling someone for a second is basically lethal as it leaves them totally defenseless. This would pretty much be a oneshot melee. That said, I like the idea of a detective melee weapon that could be purchased. (not just free items. I would argue that the body armor for the detective isn't free because they spawn with one less credit in comparison to the traitors.) Maybe it could stagger enemies on hit, like the old ump prototype did.

Threat analysis drone: The first half of this does almost nothing, aside from maybe helping with snipers but that's questionable. The second half is crazy overpowered. Automatically get kosed when you kill a detective when the body is found. It would mean that a detective could stand in a group and be nearly invincible for fear of being kosed. If (big if) this was implemented, I'd want it to be countered by the disguiser, destroyable by anyone, and maybe only work within a certain range. Honestly, the best version of the drone I've heard was the one that gave the user passive healing.

Riot hose: I kinda like the concept, and I'm all for more ways to counter fire (especially if it means more options for creating fire). I disagree with Eriana's notion that it's pointless because we already have grav, kb, repulse, and shadowbound, as those require one of your two trait slots, and you can't use preemptively against someone you know is a traitor but have no proof against. However, I think the concept is a bit out of place in crescent (which isn't a very strong reason to not include it honestly).

Tear gas: Opal and I came from another ttt server that had tear gas. It was surprisingly underwhelming and underused. It's a decent concept, but kinda weak and not worth the credit. Also, I don't think it's possible to do three grenades for 1 credit without a major rewrite. You could maybe set it up as a tear gas launcher, that comes with three ammo? All in all, it could be a cool additional option, but it's underwhelming.

Insanity device: Ragdolling is incredibly overpowered. In a lot of situations, you could substitute the word "ragdolled" for the word "killed". I would rather this screw with your vision and hearing (similar to disarray and silence). That said, I think this would feel really out of place, but maybe that's just me.

Alcohol: So like a hardmode for ttt? I don't think this should be a t item. Way back before crescent launched, opal brought up the idea of challenge mods, which were meant to make the game harder. Headhunting was one, and at the time it just made you only do damage through headshots. I could see something like this being implemented as a trait or a setting for "hardmode", but that's a separate discussion and I don't think it really fits as a t weapon. Especially because I see no reason for this to be exclusive to traitors.

Radio upgrade: I fully support this. The radio in its current form is very outdated and uses the vanilla ttt sounds. Pretty much completely useless for crescent.